When it comes to the subject of JFK's assassination, the U.S. mainstream media has a terrible track record. When the Warren Commission issued its report on September 27, 1964 stating that Lee Harvey Oswald had acted alone, it was immediately hailed as the last word on the case by the likes of the New York Times, the Washington Post and CBS. The very day the report was published, a New York Times editorial gushed, "The Commission analyzed every issue in exhaustive, almost archaeological detail...The facts, exhaustively gathered, independently checked and cogently set forth, destroy the basis for conspiracy theories that have grown weedlike in this country and abroad." Not mentioned in the editorial was the simple fact that none of the evidence upon which the Warren Report was ostensibly based was then available and, therefore, independent evaluation of the Commission's conclusions was impossible. Two months later, when the 26 volumes of hearings and exhibits were released, journalist Anthony Lewis assured the public that the totality of the evidence proved the Commission's conclusions to be correct. Of course, Mr Lewis could never explain how he had managed to make his way through more than 50,000 pages in a single day - clearly an impossible feat.
Ultimately, one can either bow down and marvel at the unparalleled speed-reading abilities of the press or one can accept the reality that Lewis, like the rest of his media cohorts, understood that dissent was not allowed and had chosen to get with the programme. Researching the facts of the case was clearly an indigestible prospect for those who had decided it was best to go along to get along. A couple of years later, when a small band of private citizens who had taken the time to actually study the record began writing works critical of the official story, they were roundly attacked and labelled as "scavengers" by these same media assets who were either embarrassed by their own lack of courage and diligence or else in the pocket of government agencies.
Flash forward to the early 1990s and the reception afforded Oliver Stone's masterful movie, JFK. The sheer volume of editorials, op-eds, letters and articles which appeared, condemning the film and its director, was almost as staggering as the savagery with which some of them were written. Perhaps the most remarkable aspect of these attacks is that they began some eight months before the movie was released, and while principle photography was still taking place! On May 14, 1991, without even having seen the script for himself, Dallas Morning News reporter Jon Margolis wrote, "There is a point at which intellectual myopia becomes morally repugnant. Stone's new movie proves that he has passed that point." Months later, New York Newsday complained of "The Blurred Vision of JFK," Newsweek labelled the movie "propaganda" and "Twisted History," and the Chicago Sun Times opined, "Stone's Film Trashes Facts, Dishonors JFK." Stone himself was understandably stunned by the establishment's continued refusal to permit reasonable questions be asked about that day in Dallas.
It would be nice to think that times have changed, that today American journalists have the courage and integrity to question the edicts of officialdom, dig into the evidence, and accept the truth in front of their eyes. Alas, reviews and commentaries on Stone's new follow-up documentary, JFK Revisited: Through the Looking Glass, tend to suggest otherwise. Case in point: the review written for Variety by Owen Gleiberman, which comes across (to me at least) as little more than the written equivalent of a child closing their eyes, sticking their fingers in their ears and yelling "La la la! I'm not listening to you!"
The international press, having fewer hang-ups about the assassination, is doing a slightly better job. In a piece for The Independent, Scottish film critic Geoffrey Macnab writes, "Even [Stone's] fiercest detractors will find it hard to dismiss the evidence he has assembled about the JFK assassination in the new documentary. Once I'd seen it and heard him hold forth, I came away thinking that only flat-earthers can possibly still believe that Lee Harvey Oswald shot President Kennedy all on his own." Yet Gleiberman demonstrates how easy it is to dismiss the mountain of facts disproving the official fairy tale if you simply deny its importance. He writes obliquely of how Stone "holds a magnifying glass up to certain inconsistencies in the evidence that will probably never be resolved" and assures his readers that the "ultimate looking-glass scenario" is how "one sick little man like Lee Harvey Oswald" could "commit an act so horrifically monumental." If your eyes just rolled into the back of your head when reading that last bit of "wisdom," trust me, you're not alone.
Of course, one should not expect any better from someone like Gleiberman who admits that his own view of the assassination was shaped by the likes of Case Closed author Gerald Posner. This, of course, is the same Gerald Posner who committed perjury before a congressional committee in 1993, claiming that when he interviewed JFK's pathologists, Dr James J. Humes and Dr J. Thornton Boswell, both agreed that they had been mistaken about the location of the entrance wound in Kennedy's head. Yet, when contacted by assassination expert Dr Gary Aguilar, both pathologists vociferously denied making any such statements. In fact, Boswell denied ever having spoken to Posner at all. Dr Aguilar gave a tape recording of his conversations with Humes and Boswell to the Assassination Records Review Board and, as a result, it contacted Posner, asking him to substantiate his testimony. Obviously, Posner could not produce evidence of interviews that had never taken place to begin with so he stonewalled the board. "The Review Board's initial contact with Posner produced no results," the ARRB noted in its final report. "The Review Board never received a response to a second letter of request for the notes." If this is the calibre of "expert" on which Gleiberman chooses to rely, it is little wonder he has nothing but nonsense to offer on the subject. Garbage in, garbage out.
In any case, Gleiberman doubles down on the Krazy Kid Oswald narrative, dismissing the question of why Oswald would have chosen to break the law and mail-order a rifle under an assumed name, instead of just popping into any one of his numerous local gun sellers and picking one up without leaving a paper trail, by stating, "...because he was a sick puppy who was mentally ill enough to want to shoot the president." The fact that no evidence that Oswald was "mentally ill enough to want to shoot the president" has ever been produced is, I'm sure, of little consequence to someone like Gleiberman. Pointing out that Oswald's Marine Corps records revealed no signs of mental abnormality, or that psychiatric evaluations conducted a few short years before the assassination concluded that he was "not dangerous to other people" and there was "no sign of psychotic phenomena," (see Sylvia Meagher, Accessories After the Fact, p. 244) seems almost as redundant as noting that Oswald was known to have been an admirer of President Kennedy. After all, Gleiberman can dismiss these facts easily enough with the one-size-fits-all argument of "holding up a magnifying glass to something that will probably never be resolved."
When Gleiberman does make an attempt at countering specific items of evidence, he ends up achieving little more than highlighting his own ignorance. For example, Oliver's Stone's 1991 movie placed great emphasis on the fact that JFK's head was sent hurtling "back and to the left" in an apparent response to a shot from the grassy knoll. Gleiberman's response to "That infamous movement" is to suggest that it "was long ago dissected by ballistics experts." For what it is worth, I know of only two "ballistics experts" to have tackled the issue and they do not even agree with one another. One of these specialists, Lucien Haag, wrote a piece for the AFTE Journal - the peer-reviewed publication of The Association of Firearm and Toolmark Examiners - in which he relied upon the "jet effect theory" originated in the 1970s by physicist Luis Alvarez. Dr Alvarez had fired soft-nosed hunting rounds (not full metal jacketed bullets as supposedly used in the assassination) from a rifle of much greater velocity than the type Oswald was alleged to have used into melons weighing far less than a human head and claimed he had found the answer to Kennedy's "retrograde motion." Of course, he had also shot at a variety of other objects that did not fly backwards but those results were kept out of his published papers. (see Josiah Thompson, Last Second in Dallas, pp. 123-129)
The other ballistics expert to have confronted the problem, Larry Sturdivan, was less enamoured of Alvarez's theory. After having taken part in experiments wherein the actual rifle and ammunition Oswald is alleged to have used was fired into at least ten rehydrated human skulls filled with brain simulant, none of which flew backward, Sturdivan concluded that "The jet effect, though real, is not enough to throw the president's body into the back of the car." (Sturdivan, The JFK Myths, p. 164) Instead, Sturdivan offered the suggestion that the head shot had created an enormous downward rush of neurologic stimuli to all efferent nerves in Kennedy's body and, because the back muscles are stronger than the abdominals, this caused the president's body to arch dramatically backwards. But as Dr Donald Thomas wrote in his brilliant book on the JFK forensic evidence, Hear No Evil, "Sturdivan's postulate suffers from a patently anomalous notion of the anatomy...Neither the erector spinae, or any other muscles in the back are capable of causing a backward lunge of their body by contraction." (Thomas, Hear No Evil, p. 341)
So, of the two ballistics experts to whom Gleiberman presumably refers, one relied on a physicist who had rigged his experiments and cherry-picked his results, and the other offered a theory that was anatomically impossible. Of course, there is one other explanation for "back and to the left" that does not rely on such sophistry or chicanery: a shot from the grassy knoll. And, in fact, this explanation is supported by the autopsy X-rays that show a trail of bullet fragments in the top of the skull that could not have been left behind by a full metal jacket Carcano bullet entering low down in the back of the head, as per the official story. Perhaps it is just as well that Gleiberman's article is, as he writes, "a movie review, not a forensic dossier."
Not that Gleiberman fares any better on non-scientific issues. For example, he spectacularly fails to understand the importance of eyewitness Victoria Adams in establishing the likelihood that Oswald was not on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository at the time of the assassination. As the Warren Commission admitted, a maximum of 90 seconds after the shooting, Oswald was seen in the second floor lunchroom by police officer Marion Baker, looking cool, calm and collected. Baker had run into the depository building, believing the shots may have been fired from its roof, and was on his way up the stairs when he spotted Oswald inside the lunchrom and confronted him, demanding that he identify himself. After Oswald's boss Roy Truly confirmed his status as an employee, Baker continued his ascent. It has long been understood that Oswald had precious little time to make this encounter and, in its re-enactments, the Commission did everything it could to speed up Oswald and slow down Baker. (see Harold Weisberg, Whitewash, pp. 85-89) But more often overlooked is the fact that Vicki Adams and her friend Sandra Styles - who had watched the assassination from a fourth floor window and made their way down to the first floor approximately 15 to 30 seconds after the last shot was fired - were on the depository steps at the very time Oswald would have had to have run down them and neither saw nor heard any sign of him.
Gleiberman responds to this by suggesting that Oswald might have heard Adams and Styles on the stairs "and hung back for ten seconds," seemingly oblivious to the fact that hanging back for any length of time would have made it impossible for Oswald to have been in the lunchroom when Baker arrived there. Perhaps more importantly, Gleiberman has somehow missed out the third lady in the equation, Dorothy Garner. Ms Garner had left the fourth floor window with Adams and Styles but, rather than descending the stairs with her colleagues, had gone to a storage area by the stairway. She stayed there long enough to see Baker coming up the stairs after his encounter with Oswald on the second floor. What she did not see in the intervening seconds was Oswald descending from the sixth floor. And if Oswald did not walk down those stairs in between the time Adams went down and Baker came up then he could not have been on the sixth floor at the time of the assassination. So, despite Gleiberman remarking with derision that Stone's new film "treats it as a seismic revelation," that is precisely what the Adams/Styles/Garner story is.
Ultimately, his inability to grasp the significance of the above underscores the biggest problem with having someone like Gleiberman review a documentary about the Kennedy assassination: he has no idea what he is talking about. The media has so actively avoided learning the truth about the case that it cannot possibly hope to adequately assess, let alone rebut something as illuminating and ground-breaking as JFK Revisited. It is little wonder, then, that the many thousands of documents released by the ARRB that form the basis for Stone's new film have yet to be looked at or reported on in any meaningful way by any establishment media outlet.
And little wonder that Gleiberman shut his eyes, popped his fingers in his ears, and doubled down on denialism.
Way to go, Martin! This is a very well written analysis, displaying a deep understanding of the case. Your factual knowledge on the JFK is superb! The lunchroom encounter discussion is particularly noteworthy for clarity and understanding.
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ReplyDeleteAs one somewhat familiar with Vicki Adams, I want to commend you for your careful and accurate analysis of the evidence surrounding her story. Those polished traits of reporting are rarely seen these days (Variety being a case in point) but in this instance, you nailed it! If Owen Gleiberman's suggestion of a 10-second delay is based on his viewing of Oliver Stone's new documentary, I can only say he should have stayed awake a bit longer to take note of why that proposition is ridiculous.
ReplyDeletei cant find any other way to contact u; in ur kennedys and king review of last second u write: “proof that the HOLD family of crosstalk was overdubbed onto Channel 1.” u dont elaborate; "overdub"? by accident? by intention? specifically to neuter the value of that moment of the tape or just a coincidence? i think this pt needs greater clarification; thx
ReplyDeleteSpock54, sorry for the delayed response, I only just saw your comment. Dr Barger told Tink that the overdub was "probably inadvertent." He suggested that "The odd and intricate assemblage of him frequencies...was likely the result of multiple tape copies and dubs - including one splice on channel 2 - made to and from multiple machines in the first days by technicians at the DPD, the FBI, the Secret Service and other agencies."
DeleteHi Martin,
ReplyDeleteI think you are the person I was chatting with on Talbot's Facebook page. You sent me to kennedysandking.com, and that led me here. (I didn't see a chat option there).
You mentioned the work of a PhD named Riley. I was unable to find his credentials, or the original publication. If you wouldn't mind, I'd love to see that.
As I mentioned, I'm always looking for examples of physical evidence for a 2nd shooter. To be specific, I am looking for reports of bullets, bullet fragments, shell casings, weapons, or finger prints and the like.
You offered a scientific analysis of the autopsy photos and report (which I assume means you accept those reports as legitimate). Very helpful, but for the purposes of my question, not quite the same as physical evidence.
Lastly, if you felt like explaining to me where such evidence might have gone, who might have removed it and caused it to disappear, and any evidence you have for this act of treason, I would love to see that as well.
Thank you so much for being willing to engage with me, an individual who maddeningly refuses to accept the conspiracy claims of yourself, Talbot, Di Eugenio, and others. It's an outrage! How could anyone be so wrongheaded! And yet, here I am. Thanks again, and be well!
Hi Hugh, sorry for the late reply but I don't get notifications for comments on this blog and I don't check back very often. In any case, Dr Riley's first piece on the head wounds can be found here:
ReplyDeletehttp://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/R%20Disk/Riley%20Joe/Item%2004.pdf
I may not have explained myself very well on David's FB page but the point that I was trying to make was that the physical evidence of a second shooter - the bullet fragments you are asking for - can be seen in JFK's brain on the X-rays. Since any accurate, honest, objective analysis reveals that those fragments absolutely could NOT have been left behind by a bullet entering through the rear entry hole discovered at autopsy, they could only have come from a second missile. Therefore, those fragments (as well as the damage to the cortical region of the brain) constitute the physical evidence you are asking for.
Where is this evidence now? That I can't tell you. From the knowledge you have previously displayed, I am sure you must be aware that JFK's brain (and the fragments in it) has been "missing" since the 1960s. Just who was responsible for pilfering the brain - as well as certain photos, X-rays and microscopic tissue slides - from the archive is a matter of great debate. There are those who blame the Kennedy family for removing these grisly items. I have no idea whether that is true or not.
As for additional evidence of a second shooter, I'm not sure why we would expect to have anything more. It seems to me that a sniper positioned behind the fence atop the knoll would be very unlikely to have left his rifle behind for others to find, and picking up a shell casing is a pretty simple matter. Nor would I expect to have fingerprint evidence since no one in the Dallas police department or the FBI ever dusted the fence or surrounding area for prints. I mean, why would they? I can only imagine how many different sets of prints would be found on a fence sitting on public land (assuming it was capable of retaining such prints)! So, like I said, I can't imagine what additional physical evidence we would expect to have if the gunman fired a single shot and took his weapon with him when he fled.
I hope this helps you understand my views better. If you don't agree, you don't agree. I'm certainly not outraged by it. I remain confident in my understanding and I've only ever really been interested in knowing for myself what happened. I'm not that interested in convincing others any more. I've learned from experience on numerous forums and message boards over the years that you can never change a person's mind once it's made up. So I don't try anymore.
If I've given you any reason at all to reconsider your views or dig deeper then that's cool. If not, it's no skin off my nose.
All the best.
Hi Martin,
DeleteThanks so much! I also feel no need to convince anyone, but I do enjoy discussing the issue with smart people with whom I disagree. This subject occupies my thinking quite a bit, you know, so it's nice to find a fellow traveller, even if they are headed in the other direction.
I'll offer some further thoughts, and then you can feel free to respond, or we can drop the thread -- no worries either way.
First, I'm heartened to find that you accept the validity of these documents -- the autopsy findings, photos and drawings. That is, you reject the views of those who, like David Lifton in Best Evidence, argue that the president's body was intercepted between Dallas and Bethesda, and altered or replaced by a second body, showing shots from the rear. In your view, the body was the president's body -- the error is in the conclusions of the experts doing the initial autopsy, and all the subsequent teams of experts who confirmed their findings. OK, that's progress, of a sort!
This is an interesting paper, but it doesn't appear to be published anywhere. I can't tell what Dr. Riley has a doctorate in, where he works, or if he has a history of peer reviewed work. These would go a long way towards establishing his expert view as having credibility.
As I'm sure you know, the experts on the other side — those who say any bullet fragments in the skull are from the shot fired from the rear -- are many, and do in fact have serious and respectable credentials, in the relevant fields. I'm not sure the total number of forensic experts who examined these documents and concluded that they showed conclusively that shots were fired from the rear, but they include the experts from the Warren Commission, the HSCA, the Rockefeller Commission, and the Clark Commission. It is a certainty that these now-public records have been examined by other PhDs in the relevant fields as well. If these records clearly showed evidence of shots from the front, this would be verifiable by any expert, and thus the claims would be splashed across the front pages of every paper in the US -- or, in the unlikely event that the entire US journalist establishment has suddenly lost the courage of its convictions, it would be front page news in Australia, Japan, Germany, the UK, or some other news venue that isn't beholden to the supposedly powerful conspiracy in the US. There is no power that extends across the face of the entire globe and can suppress important information for decades. Eventually, the truth comes out. (Examples: the illegal invasion of Cambodia; the secret assassination attempts on Castro's life by the CIA; the NSA spying program and it's unconstitutional sweeping up of communications by ordinary Americans; the list goes on.)
DeleteSo we end up, in this discussion, in the place that so many other conspiracy theories end up: in what I call "the fog of expertise," where the resolution of any question ends up revolving around data that requires a scientific background to assess -- and in science, as you know, we have a Ph.D for each imaginable viewpoint.
I've argued with climate change deniers, moon landing deniers, and flat-earthers. Each has an expert they can point to, and papers written by somebody or other in PDF, equipped with graphs and diagrams. What I want to know is: does your expert have the requisite expertise? Do they break with the overwhelming majority in their field? Are their minority perspectives ascendant or descendant? (That is, is anyone listening to them, or are they lone voices on the fringe?) Should we take their views seriously?
You mentioned that the lack of physical evidence doesn't trouble you, since you assume that the murderers would be competent enough to remove or destroy any evidence. But in any murder case, physical evidence is key. If you don't have physical evidence, you don't have much — and you certainly don't have enough to establish the foundation for an entire theory of history and government, as the conspiracy folks such as our mutual friend David Talbot have claimed to do.
DeleteMany theorists claim as many as 8 shots. Those would have to be magic bullets -- they disappeared! The bullets or fragments were not discovered in the bodies, in the car, or around Dealey Plaza. No guns or shell casings were found either, and (no reliable) witness even saw them clearly as they did their deed. (I'm sure you are aware, but there are eye witnesses who saw a man of Oswald's description fire from that window, as well as 3 earwitnesses directly below who clearly heard 3 shots, including the shells hitting the floor above their heads.)
The prosecution against Oswald has plenty of astounding physical evidence: bullets, bullet fragments, the murder weapon, finger prints on the guns and in the sniper's nest, the shell casings, the bag the weapon was brought to work in, the photos of the suspect with the gun... It's quite a lot!
Now, I realize that a conspiracy theorist will say "well, that's just because the government is so powerful that it manufactured all that proof!" That seems quite unlikely; the government is not good at keeping secrets for long, and a secret of this magnitude, with so many warring agencies, and so many serious journalists eager to uncover the story of the century -- that's just not a reasonable claim.
What's more, if you say that the claimed conspiracy is so powerful that it can invent evidence as well as cause evidence to disappear, you then have an unfalsifiable claim. It can't be either proven or disproven.
Thanks again for chatting, and also for being willing to publish my dissenting comments. It speaks well to your honesty and openness to contrary points of view!
Hi again Hugh. You've written quite a lot there so apologies if I don't respond to every point. It seems to me the thing you're most concerned with is the number and the collective credentials of experts who have supported the government theory vs those who do not. Me personally I've really never been that concerned with the numbers. I look at it quite simply: We can expect the government's own experts to reach government-friendly conclusions. That's just reality. And it's because scientists do not work in a vacuum. Science is a social process and the consequences of a scientist's results will often factor in his conclusions as heavily, if not more heavily, than the empirical evidence. I have written elsewhere on this blog about the Clark, Rockefeller, and HSCA panels and how and why they manipulated the evidence to suit their assigned tasks so feel free to check that out (IIRC it's in part 5 of my piece, "How Dave Reitzes Gets it Wrong). To answer your question about Dr Riley's credentials, he has a a Ph.D. in Neuroscience, specializing in neuroanatomy and experimental neuropathology (see here : http://www.kenrahn.com/Marsh/Autopsy/riley.html) As far as I'm aware he is the only neuroscientist to have weighed in on the JFK assassination.
DeleteIn any case, credentials by themselves do not impress me. It doesn't matter what an expert says, it matters what he can prove (and how honest he is in his presentation). One point you made which I think demonstrates how far apart we are in our thinking here is that you believe "resolution" revolves "around data that requires a scientific background to assess." I take this to mean that you feel only an "expert" can decide where the truth lies. I don't accept this at all. At all. Anyone with an interest in true crime and real life murder trials (and I've long been deeply fascinated by how justice is decided) will know that in court the prosecution and defence will routinely put on experts offering opposing evaluations of the evidence but it comes down to the twelve ordinary men and women of the jury to decide which expert analysis is the correct one. We are the only jury the Kennedy case has ever had and we have the responsibility of weighing it all up. Clearly the number and qualifications of experts toeing the official line factors heavily in your own conclusions and I guess I can understand that. But not me. Experts lie and experts get it wrong. Sometimes all it takes is a little common sense to sort fact from fiction. I mean, if my doctor or even a group of doctors told me that smearing peanut butter on my feet at night would stop me from getting cancer I don't believe I would need a medical degree to recognise this claim for the nonsense it is. As far as the Kennedy assassination goes, I've dug deep into the medical evidence, spoken to forensic scientists and studied textbooks to become as informed as any ordinary Joe possibly can in making my personal determination. No, I don't have any medical or scientific qualifications and I'll never be a court-accredited expert. But I can use my common sense to recognise when I'm being conned and I believe everyone else can too. You don't need to be a forensic scientist to recognise when experts are moving wounds about the head to suit their own purposes, as has happened in the JFK case.
In your points about physical evidence I believe you have misrepresented what I said, hopefully unintentionally. You wrote, "...you assume that the murderers would be competent enough to remove or destroy any evidence." But I never said anything like that. All I said was that the gunman on the knoll must have fired a single shot and taken his rifle/shell casing with him. That's it. It doesn't require any competence or destruction of evidence whatsoever, I don't know where that notion came from. As far as your comment about physical evidence being "key" goes, I recommend taking a look at real life murder convictions. You might be surprised by how often convictions are gained without any physical evidence whatsoever, usually through the use of phoney or coerced confessions. When it comes to Oswald I don't really see the "astounding" case that you apparently do. It all comes down to the fact that his rifle was used and left behind. Well if I was going to set you up, I'd use a weapon that could be traced to you! There exists no evidence that Oswald handled the rifle that day and the record is clear that it was not in his possession for at least two months preceding the assassination. Furthermore, your statement that "eye witnesses...saw a man of Oswald's description fire from that window" is erroneous. The witnesses in question gave varying descriptions (with one even saying the gunman was black and bald) but seemed to be in agreement that he was wearing a white or very light coloured shirt, as opposed to the brown one Oswald was wearing. Although, to be honest, I stopped debating this stuff years ago. I don't know if/how he was involved and I don't much care. If the forensic evidence establishes, as I believe it unquestionably does, that more than one gunman was involved, it makes little difference to me whether or not Oswald was one of them.
DeleteAll the best.
Thanks for your thoughtful replies! I certainly did not mean to purposefully mischaracterize your views. Thanks for clarifying!
DeleteMy only additional comment is to say that I agree, we do disagree with respect to credentials and expertise, and also the value of amateur sleuthing. I've had so many discussions with smart people who tried to educate themselves on topics that others spend lifetimes studying -- and seen them get it wrong. Case in point: climate change. So many people who look into this question with their "common sense," and come to conclusions exactly opposite the consensus of the scientific community on this very important question.
Much respect to you and your willingness to talk to me! Perhaps one day we'll run into each other in person.
I'd like to ask you a question if you don't mind, Hugh. Since, as far as I know, you make no claims of being a scientist or climate expert yourself, how is it that you came to the determine that the scientists are correct about climate change and their critics are wrong?
DeleteIs it because you used your own self-education and common sense?
Touche! That's an excellent point. However, I'll reframe slightly. I'm not highly educated in the intricacies of climate science, but I *am* highly educated in the function of scientific institutions in our society, including the function and methods of scientific institutions (such as the US National Academy of Sciences, NIST, the IPCC, and research institutions at major universities). I also know quite a bit about the history of science, the structure of the US government, and the nature of the news media, the history of US government covert activities, the political parties, etc.
DeleteWith that background, I feel quite confident in saying that it is highly, highly unlikely that the autopsy documents provide any proof that shots came from the front of the president. This would require *all* of the experts and panels of experts who previously examined those records to be wrong. Further, since the records are public, it would require the entire community of forensic experts in the US and abroad to be in conspiring to remain silent.
That is just not the way the world works. Sorry!
And, naturally, the same is true of climate science. The idea that 95% of climate scientists globally are colluding to deceive the public with exaggerated claims -- betraying their professions, their public duties, and risking their own reputations -- in order to garner greater funds for their research... I'm so sorry, but that's clearly BS. It's sad that anyone believes it.
DeleteAgain, Hugh, you appear to be describing self-education and applying your own common sense when making a judgement about how the world works. And there's nothing wrong with that. Yet, when it comes to the JFK case, your position relies on simply appealing to authority.
DeleteThat said, you have created something of a straw man too. It is not accurate to say that to believe the medical evidence proves a shot from the front (notice I said A shot, not shots plural) requires ALL the experts to be wrong. Because around half a dozen medical experts have studied the evidence and made the trip to the archives of their own volition (not in the employ of the government) and come to that very conclusion. Furthermore, the Clark panel said the autopsy surgeons were wrong on important issues and the HSCA panel, in turn, said that the Clark panel was wrong on certain points. So the experts you place faith in don't even agree with one another.
Additionally, though you make a point about the evidence being public, the fact is that it is locked up at the archive and can only be seen by those who are able to gain permission to do so. And in reality, very few experts have ever sought permission and made the trip to study the materials for themselves. I don't know of a single expert from outside the United States to have done so and hardly any from inside. So there is no great conspiracy of silence, just an awful lot experts who have not looked into the matter for themselves and probably know less about JFK's autopsy than the average conspiracy buff.
Very interesting. I was under the impression that the autopsy notes and photos were public -- perhaps I am wrong, or perhaps you refer to access to other specific forms of evidence. If you wouldn't mind, your help there please.
DeleteDo you know how many independent experts have made the journey to examine this evidence? Is it that case that all or most of those who have made this journey have come to the conclusions you support, or are you being selective in which that you embrace?
Thx
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DeleteThree or four autopsy photos and two cropped X-rays have made it into conspiracy books but they've never been officially published (the HSCA made use of drawings of the photos, at least one of which was intentionally misleading). There are numerous other photos and X-rays in the archive that can only be seen by medical professionals who are granted permission.
DeleteI don't know for certain how many independent experts have been to the archive for themselves, I only know about those who have spoken about doing so, and that has been a small handful. What I do know is that the likes of Drs Cyril Wecht, Gary Aguilar, Randy Robertson, David Mantik and Michael Chesser all agree with Dr Riley that there had to be two shots to the head. That is not to say, however, that they agree on every point any more than the autopsy doctors and the Clark and HSCA panels did. But that always seems to be the way with experts! I guess that's why its called a professional opinion.
In any case, the point I intended to make before but somehow failed to finish was that, in my opinion, there really is no comparison between climate science and the JFK case. Over the last 59 years there have been only a relatively small number of experts look at the JFK medical evidence (most of them paid by the government) and offer an opinion. Whereas there have been and continue to be a vast number of scientists looking into climate change to the point that it can rightly be said that there is a consensus on the issue.
To my mind, it's apples and oranges